I got poured a pint by a newbie behind the bar at a hotel recently and she looked embarrassed as it was about 40% head, but to her credit she went to fetch the shift supervisor before I said anything.
He explained after pouring it better that, even the remaining head (It had ~3/4 inch even after fixing it) might still be met by derision by many customers. "They'd be asking if you would be charging them for just for the half" etc.
There's a bit of leeway but you'll quickly hear about it if you short a pint too much.
Yes. Americans/Canadians famously can't pour beer properly. If you are pouring a pilsner or really any lager, a head of at least 2 inches is actually correct and absolutely desirable. The way it's poured in Canada (no head) is borderline undrinkable to me.
If an establishment wants to serve drinks with a head they should use glasses with a mark on the side indicating the measure, rather than glasses which need to be brim full. Using the latter style of glass and including a head is just ripping off the customer.
Preferences vary on both sides of the Atlantic. Another comment on this post complains that Americans pour beer wrong because they _do_ pour with a head.
> Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just insulted George Washington
We call that kind of beer without any head "dead". Measurement here is about two fingers width, and if you do it the first time and screw up it is two fingers in length (second part is of course tounge-in-cheek).
Right? Just top it up, let some of the foam cascade over the side... Foam always forms in the keg if it sits for too long so you need to let some of it out anyway.
Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just insulted George Washington.
It is the same in Canada [1] yet I frequently see beer sold in "US pints" over here. I assume they do it so they can advertise cheaper prices (the amount being smaller). Some places will write the glass size in ounces, but some won't.
Americans don't claim to use imperial weights and measures; they use customary weights and measures, which were also used in the UK prior to the creation of imperial units with the Weights and Measures Act 1824.
A pint in the Netherlands usually is 500ml. In very rare cases, but only in real pubs (not mass market "Irish" pubs) you get an actual pint. So you are cheated out of about ~68ml in that case. Vs the US you get a few ml more.
As far as I knew, Netherlands pubs typically sold:
- 200ml "fluitje" (little flute)
- 250ml "pintje" (little pint), often sold in a "vaasje" (vase, a tapered beer glass). This is the typical beer measure: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintje "Het bestelde glas pils heeft doorgaans een inhoud van 25 cl"
It's not completely uncommon to be offered 16 oz or 20 oz as options in the US. But I see it more at "fast casual" restaurants than bars or more upscale restaurants.
And of course, what an "ounce" means may vary. According to Wikipedia "An imperial fluid ounce is defined in British law as exactly 28.4130625 millilitres, while a US customary fluid ounce is exactly 29.5735295625 mL, and a US food labelling fluid ounce is 30 mL."
Your pubs kindly return the favor when we order whiskey. As Hunter S Thompson is reported to have quipped in a bar your side of the Atlantic: "What is this, a sample?"
Personally I'd have us use what the Royal Navy used to serve its rum ration in, the half-gill. This is 1/8 of a British pint or 71 millilitres, and the rum would have been a minimum of 54%!
Fractional gills were the pre-metric shot measure in the UK, but they were still pretty stingy. 1/6 gill in England, 1/5 or 1/4 gill in Scotland, and 1/4 gill in Northern Ireland.
Reminds me of backpacking up and down the east coast of Australia. I learned that Fosters is only northern New South Wales for beer. Every place had their own preferred beer, but maddeningly they all had their own glass. A tenner, a schooner. Each a slightly different size. I made friends with a guy in Hobart that was staying in the hostel as he was doing research there, I think he was a biologist. He took me to his favorite pub as they served imperial pints. I think who ever is behind this site needs to do some serious research in Australia as they could, at least, double the "know your glass" section...
I'm from Ireland, where filling beers precisely up to the brim is practically a religion, & many barmen will even take the glass back & top it up if they see the head diminishing too quickly in the space of time it takes you to pick the freshly poured pint up.
One thing that always struck me as odd is how the culture is seemingly the opposite of this in apparent beer meccas like Belgium - not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top. The glass capacity is never treated as being close to the rim at all.
> not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top
I'm wondering if this is due to the prevalence of cask ales vs bottle/keg conditioning. The former is relatively uncommon in Belgium and you want the head from the latter.
That said, oversized glassware (e.g. Duvel's tulip for aromatics) and/or fill lines are also used to accommodate the head while still not cheating the customer out of volume.
I remember watching the cornetto trilogy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Flavours_Cornetto ) and always wondering why on earth they fill up the glasses up to the brim. It is uncomfortable to transport this way and not spill beer.
When CAMRA was new in the early 1970s, they started a campaign for oversize glasses holding a pint to the line instead of a pint to the rim, so that there would be space for a pint of liquid and a head in the glass. The big breweries hated this idea and mounted a reactionary campaign arguing things like it would be too expensive to replace all the glasses, or serve customers the full measure they had paid for. (My father was a new recruit at Guinness and sadly one of his early tasks was the pint-to-brim campaign.)
My understanding is Belgian beer culture considers the aroma to be an important part of the experience. But I’ve never been, that’s all through osmosis.
The only sensible approach here is pint-to-line glasses. I don't want my glass filled to the very top where I'll spill it, I want it filled to the pint line. Sadly in the UK up to 5% of the pint is allowed to be foam, but I'd expect any sensible barman in the UK to top me up to the pint line if I asked, and be apologetic about it.
At least in the UK it's a legal requirement to use marked glassware when serving beer, cider and wine. (Or to use a marked measuring cylinder and pour that into the drinkware, which is sometimes done for wine.)
Measuring beer is serious business in Germany to the point the EU commission had to comment on a rule change that supposedly forbade the usage of steins for foaming drinks (it didn't, but Germany wanted to be extra strict): https://www.bayern3.de/bier-steinkrug-eu-richtlinie
Selling drinks in mislabeled containers should warrant a fraud report to your local consumer protection agency. A crowdsourcing app seems like the wrong tool here.
The US is a different place; though I will say that in Europe everything seemed to be right on the line, whereas in the US I'd say that most pours were to the very brim (likely giving me more than advertised).
There is some back and forth around whether it's legal to serve beer in traditional ceramic steins, where customers can not verify that the foam really starts above the line.
As I understand, it is legal in Germany, but only if there is visible signage that informs customers about their right to pour their beer into a marked standard glass to check the amount.
Source (German): https://www.abendblatt.de/incoming/article402102835/wer-hat-...
In 1899, an association was formed in Munich to combat fraudulent pouring. It was banned by the Nazis and re-formed in 1970. They went around and measured beers. This post is its spiritual successor.
German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_gegen_betr%C3%BCgerisch...
In the US at least it's pretty common to see bars using cheater pints. They look like 16 oz pint glasses but with a few tricks wind up only holding 14 oz
In Canada (and I’m sure elsewhere) there are surprise inspections where government inspectors show up at petrol stations and see if the pump actually gives you what it claims.
In the US every gas pump I've seen (I have not check the majority of states, but still a good sample) has a sticker on it stating inspections and who runs the state department that inspects them. Usually it is a yearly inspection (at least according to the sticker, maybe they do it more often I don't know)
I don't know if other companies do this anywhere but if you live in Ireland. Diageo have roles for people to travel around the country doing precisely this.
I have a feeling that if the USA did random, surprise inspections on businesses to make sure what they were selling was actually as-advertised, the whole system would be exposed as fraud within a month.
Bickering over a few dollars when you're paying a premium price for the experience of going out is rather silly. There's better uses of your time, like enjoying yourself.
It’s such a small thing but when a brewery or restaurant featuring beers writes “pint” as an option and gives me a typical US beer glass (shaker I believe) it annoys the hell out of me. Don’t explicitly write “pint” if it isn’t at least north of 15oz. Definitely don’t if the glass literally can’t hold a pint.
It's why all bars will have a little plaque saying what size their shots are. Almost always 25ml these days, but 35ml was common in many places. You're allowed to serve shots of either size but not in the same pub.
The way they got to the 25/ 35 split involves even more craziness. In England the law said spirits are always measured in sixths of a gill. This entire unit is obsolete, but 1/6 is a tiny bit less than 25ml. Fine.
However in Scotland two sizes were common, a fifth of a gill (slightly more generous than England) and a "nip" or quarter of a gill (a lot more generous). If you're used to ordering a "nip" of something and now you get a lot less you'd be very angry! So the 35ml option is there for the kind of Scottish or Irish establishment which would have been used to these larger measures rather than either try to keep the gill (which is a stupid unit nobody else needs) or anger drunk people.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "Make a sign" difference was to allow licensed premises to gradually shift to the more profitable, smaller, size. Maybe you change the place you own in Glasgow to 25ml first, and if the locals don't kick off you can try Aberdeen next, otherwise try again in a few years.
I like the CAMRA ones which have the pint line below the rim of the glass. Because technically the head doesn't count as part of the pint and there's a lot of back-and-forth about what the legally acceptable amount of head really is (CAMRA say 0%, pub associations serve 5%, pubs themselves serve whatever they think you'll pay for).
I enjoyed reading this site and appreciate the passion and the effort.
The "loss of the pint" is basically shrink-flation. When a bar's costs and/or overhead goes up, they must do some combination of cutting expenses and raising prices. Raising prices means either selling the same stuff in the same quantity for more, or selling cheaper stuff OR less of the same stuff at the same price. Most bars will opt for the latter options to avoid raising prices, because raising prices is more likely to create complaints. All caveats apply, of course -- drop portions or quality too much or too often and you'll get complaints for sure, but "within reason" it's the lesser of two evils.
This is why I personally don't feel like I'm being cheated out of 2oz when I buy a $8 14oz shaker pint of IPA. Clearly, the cost per oz at this bar is $0.57. A 16oz glass would cost $9.14. They don't owe me the 2oz for free just because they used the word "pint". If the state government started enforcing pint measures again, bars would just drop the word "pint" from their signs and menus.
> 79.3% of pours were short (under 100% of claimed volume)
That is quite surprising. What breweries used to do when I worked in cafes and bars was to paint a mark on the glass and under it write "0.5" (in market that sells in liters and not in pints) and this mark is above[1] the half liter mark. Note that it is without units.
Pubs and bars get glasses for cheap or free and the brewery/distributor tries to trick the bar into selling more beer than they expect.
[1] We checked using measure cups from the kitchen. Maybe there is a conspiracy to have kitchens use too little ingredients.
Look, I get it. Beer is expensive, these days. Always has been. But I feel like these movements miss the forest for trees.
If we mandate beer volume then places that are “shorting” you will just raise the prices. Not to mention the tax on beer that would be required to pay for the inspection service. No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there’s solution is to take your business elsewhere.
Also, you know what really annoys me? When a bartender pulls a pint for me, and it’s up to the brim with no foam. Foam is part of the joy of a crisp beer. It adds aroma and anticipation. If I wanted to drink something with no foam I’d drink a soda. And in my heart of hearts (or stomach if stomachs?) I fear that’s where these arguments lead.
No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but without regulation, how do you know that you got less than you paid for unless you're going to carry around a measuring glass yourself?
If the places that were shorting you have to raise prices when they have to give you what you paid for, that's false economy -- you're not saving money, if you want to drink less beer to save money, ask for a smaller glass.
I guess I feel the same way about that as I do about a steak. How do I know that the steak is the 16oz I ordered? Ultimately the most important part is if I found the experience satisfying enough to return, not whether the steak was within .5oz of its stated measurement.
> No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there’s solution is to take your business elsewhere.
People need to know how much they got. it can be hard to judge, especially as you will be comparing across visits to different places on different days, and different styles of glass, etc.
I think your expected outcome is actually the desired one, to kill shrinkflation in favor of actual price increases. When the measures are all the same you can compare apples to apples across different businesses.
As infuriating as it may be, it's a good occasion to learn to let go.
Rationally, you're paying way more than the liquid in the glass, so just mentally tell yourself that the haircut is included in the price, and that's fine. If you can't stand the price anyway, change bar.
I'm sure the same individuals will calculate tip to the cent as well.
As someone who worked in specialty foods for years, you get what you get. Flaws and all. That's part of the charm of this industry. This is especially true for small craft breweries. If you insist on accuracy then ask for a can/bottle list. If you insist on consistency then buy macro.
He explained after pouring it better that, even the remaining head (It had ~3/4 inch even after fixing it) might still be met by derision by many customers. "They'd be asking if you would be charging them for just for the half" etc.
There's a bit of leeway but you'll quickly hear about it if you short a pint too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dggKezrSQxI
> Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just insulted George Washington
It is one of my pet peeves for sure.
[1]: https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqfVE-fykk
The UK pint is 568ml, apparently a US pint is 473 ml.
That's seems to be the norm in a lot of mainland Europe.
- 200ml "fluitje" (little flute)
- 250ml "pintje" (little pint), often sold in a "vaasje" (vase, a tapered beer glass). This is the typical beer measure: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintje "Het bestelde glas pils heeft doorgaans een inhoud van 25 cl"
They also sell standard bottled beer in 300ml and standard cans in 330ml: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standaardglas
I was not aware that 500ml was usual for the Netherlands. It is usual in, say, Germany, where they also sell the 1 litre Maß
Personally I'd have us use what the Royal Navy used to serve its rum ration in, the half-gill. This is 1/8 of a British pint or 71 millilitres, and the rum would have been a minimum of 54%!
Fractional gills were the pre-metric shot measure in the UK, but they were still pretty stingy. 1/6 gill in England, 1/5 or 1/4 gill in Scotland, and 1/4 gill in Northern Ireland.
No, us locals don't know them all either!
One thing that always struck me as odd is how the culture is seemingly the opposite of this in apparent beer meccas like Belgium - not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top. The glass capacity is never treated as being close to the rim at all.
I'm wondering if this is due to the prevalence of cask ales vs bottle/keg conditioning. The former is relatively uncommon in Belgium and you want the head from the latter.
That said, oversized glassware (e.g. Duvel's tulip for aromatics) and/or fill lines are also used to accommodate the head while still not cheating the customer out of volume.
Guinness glasses are exactly a pint, so the Guinness head means you're getting less than a pint of actual beer.
This is tolerated/expected and so de facto correct but de jure perhaps not.
McDonalds cups have a line for ice.
It's also the law in at least some EU countries, although I haven't checked beyond Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line
https://germany.representation.ec.europa.eu/news/klarstellun...
Selling drinks in mislabeled containers should warrant a fraud report to your local consumer protection agency. A crowdsourcing app seems like the wrong tool here.
There is some back and forth around whether it's legal to serve beer in traditional ceramic steins, where customers can not verify that the foam really starts above the line.
As I understand, it is legal in Germany, but only if there is visible signage that informs customers about their right to pour their beer into a marked standard glass to check the amount. Source (German): https://www.abendblatt.de/incoming/article402102835/wer-hat-...
In 1899, an association was formed in Munich to combat fraudulent pouring. It was banned by the Nazis and re-formed in 1970. They went around and measured beers. This post is its spiritual successor. German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_gegen_betr%C3%BCgerisch...
I volunteer for the pub equivalent of this.
https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...
Bickering over a few dollars when you're paying a premium price for the experience of going out is rather silly. There's better uses of your time, like enjoying yourself.
If you're not familiar with the mess that was nips: https://carolinas.eater.com/2015/10/16/9553903/mini-bottles-...
It's why all bars will have a little plaque saying what size their shots are. Almost always 25ml these days, but 35ml was common in many places. You're allowed to serve shots of either size but not in the same pub.
( edit: Better link: https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/sp... )
However in Scotland two sizes were common, a fifth of a gill (slightly more generous than England) and a "nip" or quarter of a gill (a lot more generous). If you're used to ordering a "nip" of something and now you get a lot less you'd be very angry! So the 35ml option is there for the kind of Scottish or Irish establishment which would have been used to these larger measures rather than either try to keep the gill (which is a stupid unit nobody else needs) or anger drunk people.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "Make a sign" difference was to allow licensed premises to gradually shift to the more profitable, smaller, size. Maybe you change the place you own in Glasgow to 25ml first, and if the locals don't kick off you can try Aberdeen next, otherwise try again in a few years.
The "loss of the pint" is basically shrink-flation. When a bar's costs and/or overhead goes up, they must do some combination of cutting expenses and raising prices. Raising prices means either selling the same stuff in the same quantity for more, or selling cheaper stuff OR less of the same stuff at the same price. Most bars will opt for the latter options to avoid raising prices, because raising prices is more likely to create complaints. All caveats apply, of course -- drop portions or quality too much or too often and you'll get complaints for sure, but "within reason" it's the lesser of two evils.
This is why I personally don't feel like I'm being cheated out of 2oz when I buy a $8 14oz shaker pint of IPA. Clearly, the cost per oz at this bar is $0.57. A 16oz glass would cost $9.14. They don't owe me the 2oz for free just because they used the word "pint". If the state government started enforcing pint measures again, bars would just drop the word "pint" from their signs and menus.
That is quite surprising. What breweries used to do when I worked in cafes and bars was to paint a mark on the glass and under it write "0.5" (in market that sells in liters and not in pints) and this mark is above[1] the half liter mark. Note that it is without units.
Pubs and bars get glasses for cheap or free and the brewery/distributor tries to trick the bar into selling more beer than they expect.
[1] We checked using measure cups from the kitchen. Maybe there is a conspiracy to have kitchens use too little ingredients.
If we mandate beer volume then places that are “shorting” you will just raise the prices. Not to mention the tax on beer that would be required to pay for the inspection service. No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there’s solution is to take your business elsewhere.
Also, you know what really annoys me? When a bartender pulls a pint for me, and it’s up to the brim with no foam. Foam is part of the joy of a crisp beer. It adds aroma and anticipation. If I wanted to drink something with no foam I’d drink a soda. And in my heart of hearts (or stomach if stomachs?) I fear that’s where these arguments lead.
If the places that were shorting you have to raise prices when they have to give you what you paid for, that's false economy -- you're not saving money, if you want to drink less beer to save money, ask for a smaller glass.
People need to know how much they got. it can be hard to judge, especially as you will be comparing across visits to different places on different days, and different styles of glass, etc.
Rationally, you're paying way more than the liquid in the glass, so just mentally tell yourself that the haircut is included in the price, and that's fine. If you can't stand the price anyway, change bar.
You're there to chill. Just chill.
As someone who worked in specialty foods for years, you get what you get. Flaws and all. That's part of the charm of this industry. This is especially true for small craft breweries. If you insist on accuracy then ask for a can/bottle list. If you insist on consistency then buy macro.