Why Japan has such good railways

(worksinprogress.co)

47 points | by RickJWagner 1 hour ago

8 comments

  • cebert 1 minute ago
    Japan has some of the best infrastructure anywhere. It will be interesting to see if they can keep it that way with their population changing and becoming more geriatric.
  • signorovitch 15 minutes ago
    Japan also has amazing car infrastructure too! Last time I was there visiting family in the mountains, I was quite impressed by the number and quality of tunnels and spiral ramps. The highways are similarly privatized, with tolls like train fares reducing the need for government subsidies.
  • ChrisMarshallNY 27 minutes ago
    I love the Japanese rail system. I am retired, now, so don't travel there, anymore, but I always used to cry, after coming back to the US, and getting on LIRR trains.

    The most amazing thing, is how on-time they are, and how precise their stops are. They have marks on the platform, showing exactly where the doors will open (Protip: Don't stand directly in front of the doors, when they open). I hear that this is the result of human drivers; not robots. Apparently, engineer training in Japan is pretty intense.

    • trvz 12 minutes ago
      The Densha de Go game series lets you experience a bit of what it’s like to drive a Japanese train.

      There’s also Hmmsim 2 on iOS, which may be easier to get/run.

  • amazingamazing 44 minutes ago
    the railways are excellent, but it's funny. I was just in Kyoto and saw flyers seemingly at every single temple opposing the Hokuriku Shinkansen extension. apparently this type of opposition has always existed (I looked at the history of trains in Japan and originally most Japanese did NOT want it at all because they thought it looked really ugly), like nimbys in USA, but such decisions are apparently federalized according to some Japanese nationals I spoke to, so the nimbys have no power.

    USA should do the same (well, the current federal government is volatile to say, the least, but in general I think it'd be improvement).

    • kdheiwns 38 minutes ago
      They still have influence in Japan. The maglev train has been delayed for years because a small portion passes through Shizuoka, and the local government wouldn't approve construction due to it making no stops in the prefecture and potentially affecting water supplies there.

      This delayed the opening of it from 2027 to 2035 at the earliest.

      Shizuoka as a whole is unusually screwed by the Shinkansen system. Large cities like Hamamatsu, with 800k people, are passed over by a lot of the Hikari (mid-speed Shinkansen), and the Nozomi (high speed Shinkansen) passes through the prefecture with zero stops whatsoever. However, it stops it cities like Tokuyama, with a whopping population of 100k.

      • panick21_ 1 minute ago
        Funny how people always endlessly worry about water supply, its one of those things that is very easy to claim but very hard to prove an in 99.9% of times there really isn't an issue.
      • amazingamazing 32 minutes ago
        is this because of the federal government capitulating or is it because the small group inherently has influence structurally?
        • kdheiwns 30 minutes ago
          The federal government has no influence. Prefectures approve their own construction. Japan's railways are built and operated by corporations, not the government, so the federal government has zero say in the matter.
          • amazingamazing 22 minutes ago
            ah interesting. I wonder why that person mentioned the federal government then. couldn't a single person just refuse to sell their land and block the entire thing then?
    • dwroberts 28 minutes ago
      Objections to large projects exist everywhere all over the world.

      The reason the US has such an issue with this is because of state autonomy (and corruption). Most other places in the world don’t allow subregions of the country to do whatever they want and make up laws etc

    • dgellow 40 minutes ago
      I’m not American, so only have an outsider perspective, but I’m not convinced that’s possible in the US to do the same, because the country has a completely different perspective on individual rights. Land ownership seems to be seen as something sacred that cannot be infringed in any way, meaning a small group of people who own some parts of the land can block any development that would benefit the public at large
      • amazingamazing 39 minutes ago
        land rights aren't exactly a constitutional right, but the 5th amendment makes it hard to take it, so in practice would probably require a constitutional amendment.
        • ghaff 28 minutes ago
          The 5th amendment isn't exactly recent. But a lot of factors make it harder--for better or worse--to exercise eminent domain today than in the past. You could probably never reasonably build the equivalent of the interstate highway system today. (Though even at the time, there were compromises made because of strong community pushback in some cases and there was less developed space than today as well.)
    • airza 19 minutes ago
      Japan isn’t a federal government, so the decision can happen at the national level because prefectural and local governments zoning ability came from the national government.

      I don’t think the federal government could de facto change this, though in practice they have levers available.

    • ehnto 27 minutes ago
      I am a big infrastructure nerd but I believe they are right, it does change the way idyllic landscapes and towns can look.

      But I'm not sure it's a valid reason to block such practical projects. It's the same for cities with building height restrictions (or really very many types of restrictions). It will make an old city look a bit less romantic for sure, but also people have to live and work here. Cities aren't for looking at.

    • testing22321 36 minutes ago
      It can’t work in the US, because it’s not a society that works together for the collective good, or to raise everyone’s quality of life.

      It’s a bunch of individuals in a dog eat dog situation who happen to live nearby.

      • ChrisMarshallNY 21 minutes ago
        I was just thinking about this, this morning.

        In the US, we have had a pretty wide-open nation, for much of our history. Population density was low, and many folks were forced to be extremely self-sufficient.

        This has resulted in a fiercely independent national zeitgeist.

        Asian nations, on the other hand, have been very crowded, for a very long time.

        This has resulted in a much more interdependent mindset.

        Each has its advantages and disadvantages. There's really no nation on Earth that is as good at "ganging up" on a problem, as Japan. Korea and China are catching up quick, though. The US is very good at manufacturing footguns. We don't tend to play well with others.

        It really is hard for exceptional people to make their way, in Japanese society, though. They have a saying "The nail that sticks up, gets hammered down."

        • testing22321 16 minutes ago
          >In the US, we have had a pretty wide-open nation, for much of our history. Population density was low, and many folks were forced to be extremely self-sufficient. This has resulted in a fiercely independent national zeitgeist.

          Australia is much less dense and more remote that the US (I drove 1,050 miles in Australia through the desert without seeing a vehicle or person, in the US you can’t get more than 100 miles from McDonald’s) but Australian’s work together and don’t have this “ fiercely independent “ nonsense that keeps everyone at each others throats.

          • ChrisMarshallNY 0 minutes ago
            I don’t know.

            Most Aussies I’ve known are quite independent.

            I really like them; maybe because we share so many traits.

            Also, the US was where the British sent their convicts, until we had a big prison riot.

  • zdw 42 minutes ago
  • newyankee 45 minutes ago
    The good thing that happened seems to be that China has essentially 10xed the Japan railways template. I wonder how bad a car centric China would've had been.
  • journal 18 minutes ago
    Because they have bad something else.
  • andrewstuart 28 minutes ago
    Countries like Japan seem to make policy that serves the people.

    Other countries decisions serve politicians, corporates, the rich, and maybe possibly finally, the citizens.

    Here in Melbourne a city of 5 million people we don’t have a train from the airport to the city despite decades of political talk about it. But why not? Because the Airport Coporation makes vast unfathomable profit on car parking. What’s most important? Just look around.

    • thegreatpeter 19 minutes ago
      most of the japanese railway system is private. their 2 largest companies are some of the largest publicly traded companies in the world.
      • presentation 6 minutes ago
        Works in progress also had a great article recently (also discussed on hacker news) about how Japanese railways are private, profit earning real estate development corporations. [1]

        Unfortunately, people from western countries have very negative views toward the privatization of mass transit despite the wild success that Japan has experienced. The model makes so much sense: if trains are just a way to get people to the real estate that you developed, then you’re going to make sure that the trains AND the destinations are really nice, which also turns out to be very lucrative (at least in densely populated areas) as a cherry on top.

        And even worse, like this commenter above alludes to, it is trendy in the West to believe that real estate developers are evil, and that corporations that make money are sucking the life out of society. This kind of degrowth populism pretty much guarantees that the successful Japanese model is out of reach for most countries, because it is exactly the pursuit of profit that makes Japan’s system so nice - not some edicts from a benevolent and extremely capable government.

        [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47762060